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VIP 25006 (A), March 1964
b/w If You Were Mine
(Written by Brian Holland, Lamont Dozier and Edward Holland Jr.)
Much like the Funk Brothers, the Andantes – Louvain Demps, Jackie Hicks and Marlene Barrow – were one of Motown’s best-kept secrets. Unlike the musicians, the BV girls still haven’t been given their moment in the sun, leaving them still Standing In The Shadows Of (The Shadows Of) Motown. This despite them having featured, usually uncredited (and sometimes actively billed as other people altogether!) on dozens upon dozens of Motown’s greatest recordings.
This, their one and only Motown single as the headline act, could all have been very different if it had come about in 1962. The Supremes and Vandellas both graduated from backing vocals to top-billed artistes, getting – and taking – their Big Breaks as if destiny had intended it all along. It was never like that for the Andantes, despite their having been around Hitsville for considerably longer than either of those more famous groups, Louvain Demps having been known to Berry Gordy – by her own admission here on Motown Junkies – around the time of one of the very first pseudo-Motown singles, Wade Jones’ I Can’t Concentrate, back in 1958.
Instead, they were kept firmly out of the spotlight, Motown perhaps realising (as with the Funk Brothers) that there was more value in keeping the Andantes under lock and key in the studio, available to back up, fill out or just plain cover for more marketable stars, 23/7 (Hitsville was closed one hour each day for cleaning). Just as with the Funk Brothers, Motown tried to keep them sweet by making sure they were compensated financially and promising them the chance to cut records of their own some day. This was as close as Motown ever got to fulfilling that promise during the twelve-odd years the Andantes spent working for the label, and – again, just as with the Funk Brothers – everything about it is still almost completely wrong.
The Funk Brothers were serious jazz musicians to a man, and so Motown promised them that if they behaved themselves, eventually they’d get to cut some jazz LPs. Instead, when Motown did deign to give them their own releases, they ended up cutting underpromoted sides that were usually just lightly-retooled instrumental versions of Motown’s pop hits. The Andantes were a supremely skilled vocal group, and so Motown promised them they’d get the same chance Diana Ross and Martha Reeves had been given, to cut their own potential R&B/pop hits – and with the white-hot Holland-Dozier-Holland team writing and producing, to boot. Instead, when Motown did deign to give them their own release, it wasn’t promoted, it wasn’t pressed up in big quantities, it barely made it out of Detroit, and – to add insult to injury – it wasn’t even properly an Andantes record. Not really.
For whatever reason, Motown decided that neither Louvain, Jackie nor Marlene should be entrusted with the lead vocal on their own record. Instead, the lead singer on this is none other than Ann Bogan, a former duet partner of Harvey Fuqua’s who’d followed Harvey to Motown and spent several years just kicking around, recording a few strong demos, staying on the books until she was eventually called upon to join the Marvelettes. (In a twist of irony, she ended up replacing Gladys Horton, who had herself fronted the Andantes on a similar side project, Too Hurt To Cry, Too Much In Love To Say Goodbye, credited to “the Darnells”.)
Ann does a decent job, a bit shrill and forceful for the song (which comes across a little like hack-work on HDH’s part, pretty much a straight cross (musically and lyrically) between Heat Wave and When The Lovelight Starts Shining Through His Eyes, a good pastiche but without any real inidividual personality of its own). Not a brilliant lead by any means, but it’s impossible not to wonder what one of the actual Andantes might have been able to do with it.
In fact, more than anything, I find myself wishing Martha Reeves had been available to sing lead on this one; Ann does okay and all, hits the right notes, but she’s not half the actress Martha is; this is a vocal showcase highlighting technical capabilities, rather than depths of understanding. Doubly galling for the Real Andantes (TM), not even allowed to show off their own vocal skills on their supposed big chance to shine; indeed, I’d make a strong argument that their (headlining) work on backing vocals here is markedly inferior to their (uncredited) work on backing vocals on other people’s records. Life can be a bitch sometimes.
For all of that, the record is a rollicking number, showing occasional flashes of the outstanding (the sax is good stuff, while organ and tambourine are on fire here), a bold R&B burner that’s highly danceable. It’s just that the song is very obviously a member – indeed, one of the last members – of a distinct dead-end branch of the HDH/Motown family tree from the second half of 1963 (a branch featuring Heat Wave, Quicksand, Live Wire, Lovelight, Too Hurt To Cry, the Marvelettes’ unreleased Knock On My Door, Holland-Dozier’s own unreleased Lead Me And Guide Me, etc etc) and it’s noticeably weaker – both as a song, and as a record – than any of those.
To rub more salt in the wound, Motown ensured this was essentially left to rot once it was recorded, apparently never seeing a proper release (though the liner notes for The Complete Motown Singles: Volume 4 says at least a few copies did make it to market). It’s now considered one of the rarest Motown singles; it received so little exposure that, as those liner notes say, “it may as well not have been issued at all”. The Andantes’ series of big compromises ended up having been for nothing in the greater scheme of things.
A kick in the teeth, then, but at least future listeners got a lively and engaging record out of the bargain; a mix of underhanded tricks and decent songcraft resulting in a pretty good dance record. That it’s no more than that is a pity both for collectors and for the future fame and reputation of the Andantes, but it’s no tragedy; this is thoroughly decent fare.
MOTOWN JUNKIES VERDICT
(I’ve had MY say, now it’s your turn. Agree? Disagree? Leave a comment, or click the thumbs at the bottom there. Dissent is encouraged!)
You’re reading Motown Junkies, an attempt to review every Motown A- and B-side ever released. Click on the “previous” and “next” buttons below to go back and forth through the catalogue, or visit the Master Index for a full list of reviews so far.
(Or maybe you’re only interested in The Andantes? Click for more.)
R. Dean Taylor “Poor Girl” |
The Andantes “If You Were Mine” |
DISCOVERING MOTOWN |
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The Nixon Administration said:
Nghh… Readers! Disagree all you like, but if I’ve given something half marks, it’d be good to know if you disagree because you think I’m being too harsh or being too generous 🙂
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Robb Klein said:
Wow! Only 5 out of 10!!! I would rate this 9 or 10. To me it’s a brilliant track, and Ann did a fine job. It’s also a really well-written HDH composition and a nice arrangement. I don’t see or hear any weaknesses. It’s one of my favourite Motown up-tempo songs. Yes, I can hear Martha singing it, as well, but I would guess I’d like both versions about the same.
The scuttlebutt going around at the time was that the record was “pulled back” before retail sales(I believe that I’ve seen documentation to that effect, as well. I don’t think any were “sold” in record stores. It may be that there was a load sent to a local Detroit distributor, and some “escaped” there, into private hands. There are only a handful of copies known to exist (possibly just the 6 pressing plant pressing run test demos-as in the case of the Frank Wilson Soul record). I don’t believe it was shipped as store stock OR DJ copies to other cities. My copy has “Quality Control” stamped on it.
I believe this story. It was also known that Berry Gordy needed The Andantes much more for “sweetening the recorded sound of his recording stars, as well as for normal backing of solo artists MUCH, MUCH more than any money The Andantes could bring into the company from becoming stars, themselves. In the end, he wouldn’t allow that single to even be released. I wouldn’t be surprised if Gordy made them another salary raise offer that they accepted in place of the record’s release, and Gordy promptly pulled it back.
Yes, Ann Bogan (who was lead singer of The Challengers III on Tri-Phi Records, as well as Harvey Fuqua’s duet partner) came along to Motown with ALL the Harvey/Tri-Phi/HPC/Messenger contracted artists when Gwen and Harvey’s companies were folded into Motown Record Corp. They had always been more or less affiliated with Motown, as they had their office there, and did all their recording in Motown’s “Snakepit”.
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Dave L said:
It was good to have finally learned about these women in the 80s, at least, when the many Motown books started appearing, trying for truth and not to read like more company press releases. It’s either Nelson George or J. Randy Taraborelli first mentions Barrow filling in one time at a Supremes engagement was Flo was having one her first, temporary rebellions.
They sound so delicious behind the many Marvin Gaye hits you’re just coming to now, and their soaring voices are outstanding on The Tempatations’ “It’s Growing,” and perhaps most hauntingly behind Levi on “Ask The Lonely.”
If they didn’t get the fame they deserved, let’s hope they at least got a decent piece of change out of Motown and invested it wisely.
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Robb Klein said:
Nix, … I didn’t get from Louvain’s comments that she had been one of the background singers (Rayber Voices) on Wade Jones’ Rayber recordings. What I got was that she had been there at Bristoe Bryant’s recording studio at the time Berry and crew recorded Jones’ cuts, because Bryant was also recording a demo tape of her singing her song that day.
She knew Berry Gordy, and likely also knew all the people Berry brought with him. The young African-American singers, songwriters, musicians, producers all knew each other. It was a fairly small fraternity. Louvain, Jackie and Marlene recorded for Robert West, Mike Hanks and Berry Gordy, and probably Johnnie Mae Mathews in 1959 and 1960. Louvain knew Berry in late 1958, but we have no evidence that she recorded for him that early.
I suspect that The Rayber Voices on Jones’ recordings were the same as on Marv Johnson’s first recordings (Miss Ray, Robert Bateman, Sonny Sanders and Brian Holland). If anyone extra was included, it would probably have been Eddie Holland.
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The Nixon Administration said:
You’re right, of course – I’ll amend the piece accordingly. As for the rating, it’s just never done a lot for me – but I’m only one opinion among many!
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MotownFan1962 said:
Louvain Demps took Miss Ray’s pace in The Rayber Voices when Motown started becoming more successful, probably around the time “Please Mr. Postman” was released. And extras were included in The Rayber Voices. Not just male singers, anyone who was hanging around, so it’s still possible that Ms. Demps is on those recordings.
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Michael said:
Nixon, only a five! I can’t believe it! Definately an 8 or 9 from me. Always thought this was a great song that was wasted by Motown and If given to The Supremes, Marvelettes, Vandellas, i think it would have been a sizeable hit . As always, I love the information that you provide us about these more obscure recordings.
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The Nixon Administration said:
I thought I might be in a minority here (and I suspect there are a few more of these disagreements to come over the next few days!) – but as I said to Robb above, it’s just never really done all that much for me. As always, your mileage may vary considerably…
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144man said:
I agree with you. The songs with the two syllable titles: Heatwave, Quicksand, Live Wire, Nightmare – each one is weaker than the one before. I suspect that if “Live Wire” had been more successful, “(Like A) Nightmare” would have been destined for Martha & Vandellas, possibly with the bracketed part of the title omitted.
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John Plant said:
On the strength of your fascinating analysis, I downloaded the song – and – on first hearing at least – loved it. I found it lyrically quite strong and convincing, a real evocation of a terrifying emotional situation. Yes, it would have been wonderful to hear what Martha would have done with it – or perhaps the unheralded real Andantes – but I was delighted to make the song’s acquaintance. A strength of this column is that one can guess that one will like a song through your description – you make even the songs you’re not crazy about come vividly to life.
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John Lester said:
The Andantes has never listed Ann Bogan as a bona fide member. Ann came along separately as Robb stated above.
In these circumstances, it seems odd that the artist was not credited as “Ann & the Andantes”.
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The Nixon Administration said:
I feel like I covered this pretty extensively in the review…? 🙂 “Ann and the Andantes” would be weird when nobody knew these ladies from a match girl and a trio of cleaners, and when they might never record together again (indeed it was arguably in Motown’s interest this record NOT take off).
For whatever reason, none of the Andantes were given the chance to sing lead on their supposed big break. Perhaps Gordy didn’t feel any of them had a lead vocal voice – or maybe he didn’t want to seed dissent between the three ladies who constituted one of his most valuable assets by being seen to be picking a favourite…?
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MotownFan1962 said:
They could have sang their songs in unison lead vocals, giving their songs a harmonious, unusual sound that might have been very popular. Who knows? But I think if Berry Gordy didn’t let any of the real Andantes lead to prevent infighting and a split up, he obviously knew their worth. If only he’d given them more credit…
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MotownFan1962 said:
Ever wonder what an Andantes single would sound like in the 1960’s? I think I found it. I’m not entirely sure, though. It sounds like them (the lead sounds like Louvain Demps).
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MotownFan1962 said:
APOLOGY + CORRECTION: This is not the Andantes, it’s the Velvelettes. Big fool I am.
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MotownFan1962 said:
There was a single released in 1960 by “Billy Kent and The Andantes”. Could the Andantes on that single be the same Andantes we hear on so many Motown records? Mr. Kent’s Andantes kinda sound like Ms. Demps’ Andantes to me. What do you think?
Billy Kent and his Andantes
Ann Bogan and our Andantes
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The Nixon Administration said:
Ms Demps, are you still out there? This sounds like one for you!
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Robb Klein said:
Yes, The Andantes backing up Billy Kent were Motown’s Andantes. That was a Mike Hanks production, copying Berry Gordy’s Marv Johnson successful style from 1960. They were backing various Detroit artists in 1960 and 1961, before signing an exclusive contract with Motown.
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MotownFan1962 said:
Thanks for the information, Mr. Klein!
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Graham Betts said:
I’ve joined this discussion a bit late in the day, but what about The Andantes who recorded for Dot in or around 1963 – I’m assuming this is not the Motown connected group?
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Robb Klein said:
You are correct. The Andantés on Dot were a male surf instrumental group.
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louvain demps said:
the Andantes of Motown are three women Louvain Demps, Marlene Barrow-Tate, Jackie Hicks.
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MotownFan1962 said:
Pat Lewis would sometimes fill in for one of you if you couldn’t make it, right? ‘Cause I think she’s on Jackie Wilson’s “(Your Love Keeps Lifting Me) Higher and Higher” with Jackie and Marlene.
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louvain demps said:
Yes, Pat Lewis sang on “Higher and Higher, along with Jackie and Marlene…she also was a fill in (should one of us be absent ) Telma Hopkisn, and Joyce Vencent ,also were filled in..All three of these women are wonderful singers , in their own right.
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MotownFan1962 said:
You mean the members of Dawn (Tony Orlando’s backing group) would fill in for one of the Andantes if one was absent? Cool!
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louvain demps said:
That’s right……before they became Dawn…..These three wonderful ladies were groomed by The Andantes.
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The Nixon Administration said:
Can I just say: thank you so much for coming on here and answering all of these questions! On behalf of Motown Junkies, we’re honoured to have you here, Ms Demps.
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MotownFan1962 said:
Did you ever work with any of The Blossoms (Darlene Love, Fanita James, Jean King)?
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Robb Klein said:
Thank you very much, Louvain, for providing all this first-hand information to us. Many of us old-time Motown fans are curious about Gwen (Gwendolyn) Murry (Murray), another late-period member of The RayBer Voices, from about 1950. She was also said to have been a co-writer of a couple of Jobete Music songs. As you have told us that you were a periodic member of the later RayBer Voices (1960 and 1961?), I would like to know if you remember her, and can tell us anything about her. We only know that she was a young singer (and it seems, an aspiring songwriter) who hung around Motown during its early days (along with several others). Do you have any idea who brought her in, or with whom at Motown she was connected? She was said to have co-authored “I’m Coming Home” sung by Marv Johnson (for United Artists). But my own copy, and all other copies I have seen, list only Berry Gordy as writer. Also, I checked BMI and ASCAP websites to find her writing credits, and she is not listed on “I’m Coming Home”, and not listed as a songwriter with ANY credits on either website. So, perhaps Berry bought her rights from her for a small, one-time cash payment, when she needed money.
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bogart4017 said:
Ok i listened to it again and i have to agree with your rating. It has the classic 1963 motown sound andit does remind me of “Mickeys Monkey” just under “When the Lovelight…” with a touch of a the Velvelettes “I Know His Name (Only His Name)”.
The vocal performance was nothing much to write home about and thats where this should have made a big difference. Seriously, just because you can put a James Brown vocal over a Sammy Lowe arrangement doesnt mean that you should.
Now that part about Anne Bogan following Harvey Fuqua to Motown. Did she follow him from Anna Records? Because i thought it was Etta James who followed Harvey to Chess records in 1960 when they were previously recording as Betty and Dupree for the Modern label on the west coast.
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Robb Klein said:
No, Ann Bogan did not follow Harvey Fuqua from Anna Records. She and her group, (The Challengers/Challengers III) were never related to Anna Records (which stopped operations in 1961). They were a Cleveland group, who first signed with Gwen Gordy and Harvey’s Tri-Phi Records, in 1962.
Motown signed some, not all of Harvey/Tri Phi/HPC Records. Tri-Phi’s Spinners, Shorty Long and Merced Blue Notes, as well as Ann Bogan (but seemingly not the rest of The Challengers III) were signed. As well as Clyde Wilson (AKA Steve Mancha) and Wilbur Jackson (The Two Friends) from HPC, and Junior Walker and The All Stars and The Five Quails/Quails from Harvey Records. Apparantly, Joe Charles (Lo and Joe) and Lorrie Rudolph, Eddie Burns, and all the others did not have their contracts picked up by Motown.
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nafalmat said:
A classic example here that proves not everything that’s super rare is good. This at the very best is only mediocre. I’m not surprised Motown withdrew it, it couldn’t possibly have been a hit even with massive promotion. Practically no melody and I find jerky beat off putting and difficult to listen to. One of very few stiffs from HDH. This and “I Know his name, only his name” by the Velvelettes are about the poorest of HDH’s efforts in my opinion. The flip side is definitely better but again nowhere near what we expected and normally got from HDH at that time. Very disappointing.
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Robb Klein said:
“I Know His Name(only His Name)” was also sung by Kim Weston, who did a great job on it. I also think that song is on the lower rung of HDH efforts. But, I like “Like A Nightmare”, and think it could have been a hit. It was withdrawn because Gordy needed The Andantes to be recording backgrounds to sweeten almost all Motown’s vocal recordings, almost every day, rather than out of town, making public appearances.
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nafalmat said:
I didn’t know Kim did that. Just heard it on YouTube. I admit its better than the Velvelettes but I still don’t think its a great song. I notice a VIP single copy of Nightmare has just been sold on eBay for almost $2000 and the label looks filthy. Hope the buyers happy with it.
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Robb Klein said:
There are only about 7 copies known to be in existence. I think 4 of them were: (1) Motown Corp. Record File copy (stolen from it), (2) Jobete Music Co. Record File copy (stolen from it), (3) and (4) 2 pressing run test copies, found at Archer Pressing Plant in Detroit by Ron Murphy), and 3 other copies (probably a few that were taken by the Detroit distributor’s employees before Berry Gordy cancelled the record, and recalled any pressed copies to be destroyed. Otherwise, perhaps there was an extremely small press run, only to satisfy The Andantes, Ann Bogan, and, perhaps Holland, Dozier and Holland. The seller of the issue just sold on E-Bay claimed that that record came from Jackie Hicks (found when she decided to move from her house). I don’t believe that. But, I hope that Ms. Demps will comment about whether or not there was an actual press run of commercial copies of the record and the records were destroyed, or whether there was a very small “vanity press” run, just to satisfy the artists.
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144man said:
I know that Ian Levine had a copy once.
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louvain demps said:
If Jackie and Marlene had copies, they were no doubt lost when Jackie had a water disaster in her basement…….my copy was sold…..Very few were printed…I do’t know if Ann got a copy or not….My other one was broken and discarded.
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Landini said:
Ms Demps — Totally off topic but are you all singing on the Temptations’ “Its Growing”? Great song! Did you sing on many Temptations’ records? And is that you at the end of Mercy Mercy Me? Love that! God bless you dear lady!
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louvain demps said:
Yes we are on Temps, It’s growing…….
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Darnea said:
I enjoy this piece. More than 5/10 for me. It captures the Motown sound perfectly. It sucks, though, that none of the actual Andantes were given the chance to lead their own record. Those talented ladies deserved their moment in the sun. It’s crazy how on one hand Motown was this great outlet for certain acts but, on the other hand, it pigeonholed other great artists to the point that music listeners were never properly exposed to their work.
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Jimmie Stingley said:
I love the Andantes….where can I get a CD of their compete anthology?
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